Interest in an official Classic D&D ruleset

[vodokar]

This is the second time you've dropped in a limited set of kinda awful choices about the development team with no alternate, more benign choices to pick from.

Is it really possible to even consider that Smiteworks doesn't understand the difference between C&C and the various *D&D systems? I mean, given the context of them developing one of the seminal VTT programs and having a history of developing rule sets for many of them in the past.

Smiteworks did not develop the ruleset for C&C. That was built by a community developer. I'm pretty sure that was and is Dr. Venture's labor of love.

Nor did they develop any ruleset prior to 3rd edition.

Smiteworks only created 3.5, Pathfinder, 4e, 5e and CoreRPG. None of the other official or unofficial rulesets were built by them. They were built by community developers.

My presumption of knowledge level of the older games is based on my direct discussions with them and the responses that I got. You can tell when someone doesn't really understand a topic based on how they answer your questions. Yes, they know something of D&D/AD&D. But, they don't know anything about any of the OSR games based upon them or the differences between them.

I get that you want your opinion about an official classic ruleset to be heard, Knucklehead. The thing is though. It isn't going to matter. Who is going to build it? Not Smiteworks.

I have already stated that I don't plan to make mine official. It was not my idea. Smiteworks thinks that is what I wanted, but it really wasn't. If you have arguments for why I should reconsider that, then you are welcome to explain.

At any rate, I had intended to just leave stand what I had said already and not further comment, unless anyone had questions directly about it.

One thing though. I really don't understand what you mean by "a limited set of kinda awful choices".

I simply want to publish my modules. Either they will publish them here or I will find another outlet for them. What is the awful choice?

[knucklehead]

One thing though. I really don't understand what you mean by "a limited set of kinda awful choices".

I'm sorry I couldn't explain that more clearly.

[damned]

I believe knucklehead is referring to this line:

Smiteworks doesn't understand the product or feels it just isn't worth their time etc

and suggesting that you have decided its one or the other reason and nothing else... but not to worry - its not the main point.

I believe that if you made an official ruleset that was sold in the store - so it couldnt be AD&D 1st Edition or any other Wizards/TSR variant - then you would be more likely to be able to sell modules for it in the store.
Of course - with teh ruleset comes the commitment to maintaining it.

As for Castles&Crusades I dont know who the originla dev was but Sorceror was the primary dev when I joined FG and Dr_Venture was ably assisting. Then Moon Wizard ported it to CoreRPG and he took it over for a while. Phantomwhale was involved for a little bit but its primarily been Moon Wizard since CoreRPG.

[vodokar]

The "etc" implied there might be many other reasons. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what their reason. They have the right to choose the content they want to sell in their store. I respect that.

An official ruleset might lead to more sales of modules specifically designed for it, true, but, it comes at the expense of many compromises that I don't really want to make.

I already have the personal commitment to maintaining the ruleset. An official status just means that if I had a heart attack next year, someone would pick up the torch; whereas, being in an unofficial status, there is no commitment that would happen.

At any rate, all of this is mere speculation. I wasn't actually offered that it would be made official; just that they were considering it as one way forward and would get back to me. My point was, they didn't really even ask me if that's what I wanted to happen or if that would address what I was trying to accomplish. I was simply told.

I actually haven't made any decision on this. I'm just waiting right now and considering my options.

[JohnD]

Somehow most of what this thread has evolved into strikes me as something that shouldn't be a public conversation, optimally.

[vodokar]

Ideally, perhaps, but early in the thread, I was trying to get the point across without giving much detail. People were not understanding the situation.

Nothing I have said here had any intent to disparage anyone. No names have been mentioned. As stated, there are reasons behind every decision made in a business and I respect that. I am simply trying to find a way of accomplishing the things I want to get accomplished and support the people I want to try to support.

[leozelig]

Well, I think someone should build a ruleset layered on CoreRPG that can be used interchangeably with Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, B/X, and the usual OSR rulesets. They are very similar (why do I feel like I will regret saying that?), and if you could distribute it as a generic OSR ruleset, then great. You would have to sacrifice some functionality/automation - heresy, I know, but if it handled 80% of the work for multiple game systems, then I would call that a useful asset for the community.

damned has done some great work with MoreCore, and I am thinking along those lines with more of a focus on the OSR systems. Most of the community developers work as a labor of love, but this discussion seems very business-oriented, which makes me a little sad.

[Varsuuk]

I prefer AD&D 1e and even earlier 2e before it had a handbook for everything and game mechanics for them to even the glitzy 5e. Don't dislike 5e, but now playing it, I feel it is still too video-gamey and some things just break too much with my expectations of play (example, casters and how (non cleric/druid) healing works and the loss of saving throws and other class differentiations (balancing for party vs class)

That said, I don't know that many are as aware of this among the newer players of D&D since this sea change occurred by 3e (&a very late 2e) so it's questionable how many can say: hey, I miss old way... even if we assume everyone who compares will prefer old way. I do, but I won't presume, everyone has their thing.

I am currently making a 1e module from TSR run under C&C then was gonna try to use it for AD&D ruleset as first test. Unfortunately, I will rarely have time, to do "good conversions" because I am most nterested in early gaming era modules I am familiar with (my preference, and not a totally defensible one) so, an official OSR will still have me only part converting (encounters etc) and reading the pdf or physical module aloud. Since I won't do the full data entry I did for Reptile God for these things.

And we know WotC will not want to allow anyone to sell TSR modules even if they got paid for each one sold. I'd LOVE TO BUY Homlett and Against Giants, ToE etc vs half-assed conversions I will have to do.

So, I guess an official ruleset IF it was as supported as a first class ruleset would be great because it would allow those that know amazing OSR world modules have them make their way to FG.

I for one would live to try playing Archmage or Whiterock etc or even stuff from S&W but I'll never take the time to do these huge things. judging from past with 5e and my onl 80s gaming - I'll buy waaaaaaaaay more than .I'd even have time to run because I enjoy looking through them an puttering with customizations even if never run em. Right ow, SW nor WotC get any of that money since I still own all my physical copies and only WotC module i ever bought pdf is T1-4. I've bought hundreds of bucks of C&C and big bunch for S&W (to use for pen and paper AD&D play)

Yeah so, not sure how many are even close to like me, but I'd spend money on any real good classics of old time play (especially lvl 1-5 and some 5-7,8. in reality, none of our campaigns had chars reaching past a 9 here or their. It was the path not the destination and too much low level goodness to inflate so and outlevel them.

I should go back and edit this to make sense and be on topic better but at work and not gonna take the time . in short, if we could get CONTENT (even if not sniff TSR) for an OSR official ruleset produced regularly, I'd lose money on it...errr...be all for it.

[Varsuuk]

oops I posted from like first page. Didn't see all the rest, going back to read it although prob won't punish you guys more with all that eye burning spam. once hit submit and saw it all up and went woooooow, that was too much from me.

[Varsuuk]

I always buy content I like. I would buy AD&D modules or OSR modules or Swords and Wizardry modules, etc.

My main problem is time to run them. But I would buy them anyways.

OMG ... you said so well what I rambled on about lol. Yeah, give me the ability in theory to run it on FG and I'll buy stuff I already own in tree/pdf formats.

Hell, if every AdvLeague in was converted to FG I would have bought all seasons even though I am certain I'd never run but a spattering of it. Yup, I have issues.