Rogues using cunning action to hide after attacking

[Baron28]

I have a player who's playing a rogue. His typical turn goes like this:

Round 1:

1. Action - shoots arrow at target and rolls normal damage dice
2. Move - moves out of visual range of the target
3. Bonus Action - Cunning action to Hide. His stealth roll 99.9% of the time is higher than the passive perception of the target.

Round 2:

1. Action - shoots arrow at target at advantage since hidden from previous round. On a hit, rolls normal and sneak attack damage dice.
2. Move - if necessary
3. Bonus Action - Cunning action to Hide. His stealth roll 99.9% of the time is higher than the passive perception of the target.

I get that the player wants to take advantage of the sneak attack damage dice as much as possible, but is it being abused given the scenario described above? Should I allow him to continue to hide after firing from the same relative position round after round?

[Zacchaeus]

Nothing wrong with what he is doing, except that he should be trying to get sneak attack every turn

Remember that once combat begins you wouldn't be using passive perception for the check since the beastie knows that the PC is there so it would be actively seeking the PC out. Therefore you would switch to opposed rolls (PCs sneak vs beasties actual perception check). You might feel also that in such circumstances the PC should be making the roll with disadvantage or that the beastie should have advantage depending on the circumstances.

Also have more fights in open spaces where there's nothing to hide behind.

[JohnD]

Those Stealth rolls should be in the Tower.

Also, second the concept of disadvantage or advantage given victim knows there's a delta bravo around sniping, especially if he's basically just popping out of the same location every time.

[ddavison]

Enemies can also ready an attack against the rogue for after he attacks but before he re-hides if they also have a ranged attack or spell. It doesn't even matter if the rogue is attacking a different NPC -- which is likely to be dead after the sneak attack.

The rogue can also get sneak attack whenever any ally is next to the enemy. He doesn't even have to be hidden. The bonus with being hidden is that he is also getting advantage on the attack roll when attacking a target that doesn't know the rogue is there.

[LordEntrails]

Enemies can also ready an attack against the rogue for after he attacks but before he re-hides if they also have a ranged attack or spell. It doesn't even matter if the rogue is attacking a different NPC -- which is likely to be dead after the sneak attack....

This is what I do. After one or two of their friends are killed by sniper fire, everyone else is simple waiting for the rogue to re-appear, then everyone fires are him as an interrupt before he gets off his attack.

[Baron28]

Thanks for the feedback.

The stealth rolls opposed by perception are done in the tower.

I like the idea of imposing a graded scale of +2 or -2, then advantage or disadvantage on the opposed rolls.

I like the idea of the collective enemy using their action to ready for when the rogue attempts to snipe.

Side topic, I had fun running a cloud giant the other night. I had him cast fly on himself while hurling rocks while off the ground. Knocked a sorcerer out who ended his turn in an open danger area after blasting the cloud giant with a cone of cold.

[Dracius]

3. Bonus Action - Cunning action to Hide. His stealth roll 99.9% of the time is higher than the passive perception of the target.

You're doing this part wrong. When he hides during combat, it's supposed to be contested by an active perception check of all the enemies nearby:


H i d i n g
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check’s total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.
You can’t hide from a creature that can see you, and if you make noise (such as shouting a warning or knocking over a vase), you give away your position. An invisible creature can’t be seen, so it can always try to hide. Signs of its passage might still be noticed, however, and it still has to stay quiet.
In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the Dungeon Master might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack before you are seen.

That being said, there are a couple traps to be aware of that Rogue players and DM's often fall into regarding sneak attacks:

1. Rogues are balanced around getting sneak attack damage on most rounds.
2. Having advantage isn't the only way to get sneak attack damage.

As a DM you need to be aware of the first point, but as a player he needs to be aware that while rogues are expected to get frequent sneak attack damage, they're not expected to be getting advantage on every single attack roll. The easiest requirement for getting sneak attacks is simply that the enemy be near one of your allies (or something hostile to it in the case of neutral NPC's). I mostly blame the name of the ability, since "Sneak Attack" makes most players think they have to be hidden in order to receive it. It's also like everyone stops reading right before this sentence:

You don’t need advantage on the attack roll if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of it, that enemy isn’t incapacitated, and you don’t have disadvantage on the attack roll.

I require poptarting players (ones that shoot/hide/shoot) to at least change locations before each shot to get the benefit of unseen attackers. This prevents that ever so cheesy scenario of a halfling rogue trying to hide and shoot from behind the same player or barrel. Likewise you can toss in a couple ranged NPC's and have them ready an attack action for when the rogue appears or throw in a Drow and have them Faerie Fire him.

[damned]

You're doing this part wrong. When he hides during combat, it's supposed to be contested by an active perception check of all the enemies nearby:


H i d i n g
When you try to hide, make a Dexterity (Stealth) check. Until you are discovered or you stop hiding, that check’s total is contested by the Wisdom (Perception) check of any creature that actively searches for signs of your presence.

Enemies that are engaged in combat with another actor are unlikely to be actively searching for your rogue.
Thats my reading of it anyways

[LordEntrails]

I like Dracius ruling;

I require poptarting players (ones that shoot/hide/shoot) to at least change locations before each shot to get the benefit of unseen attackers.

I guess if I were to formalize it, I would probably allow the same location to be used twice, but after that you would need to be going to new places. And rotating between the same two or three places would get predictable pretty quickly.

Again though,I'm lucky enough that my players have a similar sense of reason as I do and they don't try to manipulate the rules for things like this.

[Zacchaeus]

I don't think necessarily that there's a manipulation or exploitation of the rules here. I think it's reasonable for a rogue like character to pop in and out of cover. Having said that I also believe that a rogue is better as a two handed melee fighter type class rather than as a ranged character. So I think if a rogue is using the hide and shoot type tactic they're not contributing as much to the proceedings as they might otherwise be.