Frustrated Consumer

[Darkspyre]

Ive got to say Ive never been so interested yet discouraged in something such as Fantasy Grounds. The concept is wonderful the actual program useful but the execution one of the poorest Ive seen. This game is dependant on other people playing and from what Ive seen hardly anyone plays except the hardcore. All I can say im glad I didn't drop the 44 dollars to buy this program. I have to go to the forums to find a game. That has to be one of the laziest things Ive seen. Sign up for a game that will happen next week at 3pm or next month. Why not have a Chat lobby when loading up the program. I also paid for the month but apparently cancelling your membership doesn't give you access to the things you have bought (DnD character customization pack) and also immediately removes you as a players subscriber. I paid for the month I should get a month even if Ive cancelled after a few days. That's how an honest business model is run. Im hoping good things for this game/program/company and ill check back but as of right now its amateur night over at smiteworks.

[dulux-oz]

Hi Darkspyre,

First of all, although I'm not officially a member of SmiteWorks I am an avid and active User and Community Developer for Fantasy Grounds (FG), and I am sorry to hear you are disappointed/frustrated/whatever with the program.

I think, however, one of the issues is a misunderstanding on what FG is and is not - FG is a Virtual Tabletop (VTT): a piece of software designed to assist a group of people play a traditional (now known as a Tabletop) Role-Playing Game (RPG) without having to all be sitting around the same physical table. It is not a game in and of itself: it is a tool to assist.

So, not being a game in and of itself it's not designed to be used by a single individual, but by a group of individuals - in the same way that a traditional RPG is not designed to be played by a single individual but by a group of people playing together.

As far as the number of people who play RPGs in general and RPGs with FG in particular: there are many, many players worldwide, they just tend to game in stable groups over a number of sessions and so have very little need to advertise new games or for new players. I myself have been gaming in our current Campaign for well over three years with the same 7 other people, so I've never advertised for players because I don't need to.

Having said that, there are Game Masters (GMs) who run one-off "pick-up" style games regularly and so regularly advertise here - the LFG Forum is where they advertise - I know you've posted a few things but you need to give it more than 2 days; this is a long-term hobby not a short-term, 3-hour thing like WoW or StarCraft

As to your other concerns: I leave that to the actual SW boys.

But let me finish with this: FG is not WoW or StarCraft and so the need for a "Lobby" is a lot less than for these other programs - perhaps you could re-evaluate your position in light of this new interpretation of what FG is and is not?

If you're still interested in the fantastic hobby that is traditional RPGs then stick around and see if you can find someone willing to run a one-shot for you to give you a taste of what its really like. Then, if you're still interested check out some of the Tutorial Vids on the FG Wiki. All in all, I think that once you really understand how the hobby works you'll get years and years of enjoyment out of it - I know I have

Cheers

[Trenloe]

Sorry you feel that way... Lots and lots of people find RPG games using Fantasy Grounds. You don't see many of them on the forums because they find their group, get a steady game going and then communicate outside of the forums to keep their own private campaign going.

Pick-up games don't really happen that often - hence there hasn't been the overriding need to get a gaming lobby together. The lobby feature has been on the wishlist for 3 years with only 9 votes: https://fg2app.idea.informer.com/proj/?ia=48971 Yes, it would be occasionally nice to just decide to jump into a pick-up game, but that relies on the GM being prepared, having something to run and getting enough players who can play for the whole time period. That is why GMs, even if they're running a one off, tend to advertise in advance - to make sure they have enough players, for the whole length of the session they plan to run.

Most people what to get into a long running, regular campaign. And this takes time and patience - just like in real life it's going to take you a while to find a group that you gel with, enjoy the GMs style, enjoy the other players, the game runs in a time slot convenient to you, etc., etc.. This just doesn't happen overnight. Sorry that your expectations, or requirements of this software don't match the reality.

Stick at it, you'll have some disappointments - we all do. But, after a while you'll get yourself into one, two, maybe more games that are right for you, you'll have a blast and people visiting these forums will be none-the-wiser as you'll be playing in an awesome, regular, private campaign - that is primarily what Fantasy Grounds is designed for.

However, if you do want some one shots (also an excellent way to meet other players and GMs), try FGDaze2 next month (link in my signature) or FG Con 7 in October - if you can wait that long...

Just keep in mind Fantasy Grounds is a virtual table top (VTT) that facilitates like minded people to play RPGs online. The whys, wherefores, when and where are all up to individuals - and just like in real life, there'll be fickle people, people you don't get on with, game styles you don't like. But there will also be amazing GMs and players who, if you stick at it and keep a positive attitude, you'll be playing with years down and line and you won't regret giving the Fantasy Grounds application and community the time, patience and perseverance they deserve... Happy Gaming!

[Andraax]

You do realize that this software is a virtual table top to replicate face to face roleplaying over a computer network, and not an MMO, right?

[seycyrus]

Ive got to say Ive never been so interested yet discouraged ...

Out of curiosity, what interested you in the first place? What did you think you were going to be getting?

I know why *I* was interested in FG, but then again *I* knew what I was getting. You seem to have some severe misunderstanding of what FG was designed to be.

Did you think that you were buying something like Mario Kart? Where you would just log in, go to the chat lobby and say, "Vroom, Vroom, who fancies a race? I'm the fastest and the bestest!" and would be met with responses like, "Oh yeah?! I'll race you, you nerfherder!"

I'm genuinely interested in what might have given you that impression? I think SW is straightforward in their advertising about what the program is and what it is not. Was there a particular video or advertisement that you can remember that misled you?

[Nylanfs]

I also paid for the month but apparently cancelling your membership doesn't give you access to the things you have bought (DnD character customization pack) and also immediately removes you as a players subscriber. I paid for the month I should get a month even if Ive cancelled after a few days.

The issue with this is on Paypal's side see the FAQ

What is different between a subscription and a non-subscription license?

Subscriptions give you the same functionality and all the same content as the one-time purchase licenses, but allow you to pay a low monthly fee instead of buying it outright. The monthly fee doesn't ever accumulate towards paying a one-time fee or allow upgrades at a cheaper rate, so please consider this before continuing a subscription for any extended length of time. The monthly fee will be charged each month on your anniversary date and your license will remain active during this time, unless it is canceled through Paypal.

As soon as you cancel your subscription through Paypal (see that section), our server will be notified of the cancellation and will deactivate your account. You will lose all Ultimate license functionality and the ability to re-install or update using that key. You will still keep all your campaigns and other creations. If you choose to later acquire a one-time license or to renew your subscription, all of your creations will still be available. The only thing which will be different will be your license key.

There is a limit of 1 subscription per email address. Any additional purchases of subscriptions will be ignored by our server, but will be set up by Paypal. If you have done this in error, please contact Doug at [email protected] and we can work with you to refund any duplicate billings.

How do i cancel my subscription?

Subscriptions are handled directly in PayPal. Log into your Paypal account and then go to Settings and then Preapproved Payments.

You can also log in to Paypal on another tab and then try this link to go there directly: https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/websc...manage-paylist

From there, you can cancel that payment. Note that you should have already switched to your new license key and ran an update prior to cancellation if you are replacing your subscription with a permanent license.

I have a subscription, but when I updated, I received the Free license

Your subscription account was most likely canceled due to an inability to process payments. In some cases, Paypal's subscription service suspends collection of payment after failed attempts to process payment. This may mean that you need to review which payment method you had set up and possibly contact those financial institutions so that they allow future payments to be processed. Alternately, you may need to use a different method of payment.

To resolve this issue, we recommend canceling the current subscription from within Paypal (see the section on cancelling a subscription), waiting five minutes and then start a brand new subscription directly from the Fantasy Grounds store. As long as your first subscription has already been canceled, then you will receive a brand new license key. Enter this key into your Fantasy Grounds setting window and then re-run a Check for Updates. The software should re-install and all of your existing campaigns and creations should still be available. If you have any difficulties with this process, please feel free to contact us at [email protected] and we would be happy to assist you.

[Nylanfs]

Also I see games pop up in the LFG section all the time.

[chrisiav]

As a new user of FG (hosted my 2nd session last night) I can tell you that if you're not going into it with the right frame of mind, you'll most likely be disappointed. So far I've had my regular TT group playing. Most of them don't like it. Why? It's not TT. But most of them also play several games a month, sometimes several games a week. If I had that kind of time and gaming access, I wouldnt bother with VTT either. For me, FG is a pretty good substitute for TT when I need my D&D fix i between games.

[kylania]

The issue with this is on Paypal's side see the FAQ

That doesn't sound like a problem on Paypal's side at all. All Paypal does is say that "Dude cancelled his subscription by the way", it's SmiteWorks that takes that information and deactivates the key instantly rather than after the paid time is complete.

There's no reason that you shouldn't be able to cancel a subscription yet still have the rest of your paid month available. That's how any reasonable consumer would expect it to work. Having to cancel 29 days in to avoid getting charged for another month yet still get most of what you paid for is a poorly designed system.

[jshauber]

Dark, You do realize that you posted yesterday in LFG forum and have 3 replies already about GMs looking to help you out. You might not have gotten my post in time to play last night, but there are quite a few games being recruited for and/or GMs willing to at least show you how it all works so you can get more familiar with FG.

I wouldn't bash the program, company or community in just a couple days. If you went to your local game store (GOOD LUCK FINDING ONE NOWADAYS!!) and bought a new ruleset would you expect to have a group waiting for you to sit down and play with them before you left the store? I doubt it, you would have to talk to the store owner and see if anyone was playing, maybe check a message board in the store to see if anyone was looking for players, maybe post something yourself about wanting to play...much the same here. Yes, here you have access to people world wide, but you have to give people a chance to see your post, and respond and be willing to check forums regularly to see who has responded so you can take advantage of the opportunity.

Have a little patience it will pay off in the end!!!!