Saving throw question

[PsiKoTiK]

Just want to clear up some confusion on my end. To keep it simple I'll use the Druid spell Poison Spray as an example.

Poison Spray - The creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage.

Druid spellcasting says this:

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Wisdom modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your wisdom modifier

So does Poison spray then switch to this:

Poison Spray - The creature must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or take 1d12 poison damage.

Or does it remain a Constitution saving throw, but the syntax on the action would be:

Type Base Stat Prof Bonus
Con DC 8 + Ability Wis + (Star Here) + 0

If someone could go a little in depth to explain how to modify the attack and saving throws in game under actions it would be helpful.

[chillybilly]

I may be wrong but I will give it a try.

Level 3 Fred the Druid has a Wisdom of 16 (+3 bonus).

Fred fires poison spray at a goblin with a Constitution of 12 (+1 bonus).

The goblin must make a Constitution saving throw (1d20+1) with a difficult check of 13 (8+2+3=13).

The goblin rolls a 20-sided dice and adds 1 (his Con bonus) and the total must equal or exceed the number 13 (8 plus Fred's proficiency bonus + Fred's Wisdom bonus). A total of 12 or less and he takes the 1d12 poison damage. A 13 or higher and he takes no damage.

I think that's how it's done.

[Trenloe]

The stat used to make the saving throw doesn't change based off the casting stat - so in your example, the target will always make a constitution saving throw.

The casting stat is used to set the target number required to pass the save.

You can modify the attack and saving throws by clicking on the magnifying glass icon to the right of the relevant entries. This brings up a window that, hopefully, should be pretty self explanatory. Before you check/modify any saves for individual spells, be sure to set the "Ability" for each group of spells - click the magnifying glass icon to the right of the spell group title and set the "Ability" used for that spell group - this will then be used every time "Base" appears in spells for that group.

[Larac]

Just another way to look at it.

The Caster sets the DC of the Save using their Casting Mod. INT WIS CHA are the big 3.
That is the 8 plus Mod Plus Pro=DC

The Target then makes a save against what the spell says, the target is DC as above.

Not sure if that helps or muddies, hopefully it helps.

[buvan11]

Just another way to look at it.

The Caster sets the DC of the Save using their Casting Mod. INT WIS CHA are the big 3.
That is the 8 plus Mod Plus Pro=DC

The Target then makes a save against what the spell says, the target is DC as above.

Not sure if that helps or muddies, hopefully it helps.

My Comments: Personally, I think some D&D spells are called wrong. This for example; it's not a spray. A spray, to me a minimum of, implies a cone-type result. Like the spray from a spray container. In the description, is it a spray? No, it's a "puff of noxious gas". It's virtually as if it must have a product part entailing Taco Bell burritos.

I recognize cantrips typically aren't indicated to be awesome, however exactly how awesome is "puff of gas"? Who intends to be referred to as Gassy the Magician?

Mind you, it's potentially harmful gas. Pass some of this gas on a 0-level peasant and, with an average damages of 6-ish points, it can eliminate them. But, they additionally might make their CON conserve and take no damages, or perhaps that large d12 pass away rolls up 1 point of damages. That's the bad thing about d12, it rolls 1's as frequently as it does 12's.

I would certainly house rule this to be a spray instead of a puff of belly gas and state it can affect numerous creatures in a 5ft area and even 10ft area. Subdued for a cantrip? Not truly.

The weakness of Spell Poison Spray isn't really the horrible summary. It's the fact that lots of monsters have suitable CON incentives and also poison resistance is pretty usual.

The good news is that you do not have to roll to strike, so it's still effective against anemic Kobolds.

I'll allow SpongBob have the final word on what the summary sounds like.