New Idea for Fantasy Grounds revenue

[Ardem]

I know the developers are working on pieces and throwing them up with constant updates and relying on new members to increase the various attributes for FG, however this cost model will require adjustment in time or we will see little further development.

But I had a thought that could work for the developers and FG player base, which is a pay for development scenario similar to kickstarter.

Currently there is a vote on development ideas, to help the devs in work out some of the stuff this wish to include, my concept is taking this a little further where the developers set a cost of development and the users can fund this, however once funded there is an expectation these piece of work get coded in a reasonable or stated time

There are some of us that say no no I do not want to pay anymore, cause they want to extract the maximum amount out of FG and the developers are been more then generous in there time and development, but this is not a sustainable model.

There are some of us that realize that we pay for what we get, for example the great icons that people have received via Smiteworks from Raymond, was due to a number member so this community contributing to it, and smiteworks also contributing. I for one would have no trouble contributing to features I would love to see in Fantasy Grounds. For example included sound, I would love to hear those dice rolls, or ability to send play sound.

Anyway a thought look forward to the discussion

[jh79]

I suggested that here, and Doug gave me a like on it, so I know he saw it.
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forum...-Roll20!/page8

If we want to get the things we want sooner, as in months to years sooner, then a kickstarter for each of them would work so they could hire extra devs. It is the only feasible way I can see for them to get out of the corner they are currently backed into.

Then the kickstarter supporters of that particular feature get it in a special update just for them. So you pay for the features you want basically, and we get them much sooner. I hope they go kickstarter. Like you said, they have given way more then anyone else and we can't expect them to develop for free until the end of time.

[Mask_of_winter]

This all sounds good in theory. In practice, many people wanted a ruleset editor, yet the kicksarter for the ruleset wizard last year did not get funded. Very few people put their money where their mouth is.

If I'm Smiteworks I'm going to think twice before going down that route.
Just Sayin'

[jh79]

This all sounds good in theory. In practice, many people wanted a ruleset editor, yet the kicksarter for the ruleset wizard last year did not get funded. Very few people put their money where their mouth is.

If I'm Smiteworks I'm going to think twice before going down that route.
Just Sayin'

I don't agree the majority want a ruleset editor with fantasy grounds, I think the majority want features to play the games they love... The gist of the suggestion made is only people that fund a (kickstarter) for a particular feature get that feature.

So you don't have to support that feature if you don't want to, or support the features you do want and don't fund the ones you don't. Or don't support at all but then you stay with what you got now, which is plenty good, but WOW features cost money, and I'd rather have them sooner then years from now.

An alternative could be Ultimate Licence Holders get all the kickstarter install features. 150 bucks is having some good skin in the game towards development. Getting free kickstarter features would drive Ultimate Licence sales way up. Either way I'm personally good with.

This is just my opinion and they can do what they want, but I personally don't expect a free ride forever.

[Valarian]

This all sounds good in theory. In practice, many people wanted a ruleset editor, yet the kicksarter for the ruleset wizard last year did not get funded. Very few people put their money where their mouth is.

It wasn't a Kickstarter. It was on a funding site that, I'd certainly, never heard of. I was in two minds about funding it for that reason alone. I did in the end, but it was with misgivings. I think a Kickstarter project would do a lot better, in terms of visibility, trust, and funding. It also wasn't a Smiteworks project. It was an independent project. This didn't exactly give confidence that ruleset development was a priority for Smiteworks.

[Mask_of_winter]

It wasn't a Kickstarter. It was on a funding site that, I'd certainly, never heard of. I was in two minds about funding it for that reason alone. I did in the end, but it was with misgivings. I think a Kickstarter project would do a lot better, in terms of visibility, trust, and funding. It also wasn't a Smiteworks project. It was an independent project. This didn't exactly give confidence that ruleset development was a priority for Smiteworks.

I know it was Verkami. I used kickstarter like Canadians use ski-doo to designate a snowmobile

People tend to believe crowd funding is the answer to all problems. With Zeph working on graphics, John on coding and Doug running the business and customer service, who's gonna run the Kicstarter? These are a lot of work.

That said I would gladly give my money to a Fantasy Grounds Kickstarter.

[dulux-oz]

The trouble, as I see it - and, let's be frank, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here - is that in my experience people who aren't coders have, in general, no practical idea of just what is required to actual develop a "cool idea" into a working piece of code - hence they have no idea of what it costs to implement the "cool idea" - hence the amount of money required generally in no way matches the non-coders' expectations.

For example: it would seem relatively easy to implement Exploding Dice and therefore shouldn't "cost" that much, yet how long have I, JPG, Obereton and others worked on this and we still haven't gotten it to the point its ready to be released.

People who are coders, on the other hand, do realise what it takes to develop a "cool idea" and so we either (a) do it ourselves because we feel the functionality it will give us is worth the effort, or (b) don't do it because the effort is not worth it.

Let me put it another way: for those of you who have used either my Locations or Weather Extensions: how much do you think they're worth?

Having said all that, the thread's premises is a good idea, so I'm not trying to poo-poo it at all - I'm just pointing out a few of the expectation management issues.

Cheers

[damned]

....and the developers are been more then generous in there time and development, but this is not a sustainable model.

i agree - i am personally not a fan of the subscription model but it is one that makes far better commercial sense - the business knows pretty much what their revenue will be next month, next quarter etc and can plan accordingly. id pay a subscription if required or would support paying for some new features - for me I would like to see better dice mechanics and easier ruleset (or at the least character sheet) development...

I don't agree the majority want a ruleset editor with fantasy grounds...

It is #1 on the Wish List and has been for a long time...
So its #1 from those who chose to vote on the wish list...

Currently there are no feature gaps between the two license models other than the support for unlicensed/demo clients.

I wonder how hard it would be to have features available to some *individuals* and not others? If the features came as DLC then they already have a system that supports it.

It wasn't a Kickstarter. It was on a funding site that, I'd certainly, never heard of.

Kickstarter was for a long time only accessible to Americans - even Canadians couldnt easily launch a Kickstarter. Today there are a *few* more countries - US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Norway and Sweden - but that still excludes a lot of people including psicodelix.

Another option might be to halt development of FG 3 at or soon after 3.0.10 (maybe a 3.1.0 release) and concentrate only on FG 4 (Unity). Launch 4 as an upgrade. FG 3 will continue to work and continue to support whatever it supports today but version 4 requires a new license - or maybe an upgrade option for existing license holders - subscribers will get access to both as part of their (ongoing) subscription. It might annoy some, nah, it will annoy some, but I think its a reality that new features require investment. Not many other companies give you new versions for free for ever...

[dulux-oz]

Another option might be to halt development of FG 3 at or soon after 3.0.10 (maybe a 3.1.0 release) and concentrate only on FG 4 (Unity). Launch 4 as an upgrade. FG 3 will continue to work and continue to support whatever it supports today but version 4 requires a new license - or maybe an upgrade option for existing license holders - subscribers will get access to both as part of their (ongoing) subscription. It might annoy some, nah, it will annoy some, but I think its a reality that new features require investment. Not many other companies give you new versions for free for ever...

Devil's Advocate again - and what about the on-going "discussions" around Roll20 and how its "free" - you put another price point on FG and it will only strengthen the anti-FG arguments - which is counter to what has been said in other Threads about making FG "more competitive".

No, if you're going to go down the road of trying to get more features then I think the idea of this thread is the better way to go.

Of course, another option is learn to code and do it yourself - but most people don't want to do that, do they
(Runs for cover while he puts on his asbestos suit)

Cheers

[Ardem]

My opinion is go not great leaps but moderate changes at reasonable prices and not kick-starter just something localized to the FG and Steam FG community. Longer end dates for the pledges, six months perhaps more. $3K here $3K there for tangible changes.

As for coding expectations I know enough across project planning in IT, code based development it a difficult task to budget. This is why the developers need to prices tag a feature the can be crashed. Currently they are implementing or not implementing based on current new membership renewal, or limitations with what they can do with budgeting.

As a community this might be a way we can implement some of the changes we would like to see and perhaps remove some of those financial constraints to development.

Yes there might be a little website development to set up and pledges would need to go through store somehow, but I see possibly a longer term development strategy.

JH79 is getting the very jist I am at, smaller features but the possibility with enough money for them to be fast tracked. I am confident based on what I see about Smiteworks, they give as much as they possibly can but are limited. The product is more of a passion for them then a get rich scheme. This is why I would like the community back the game as much as the developers. Again just my personal thoughts and very much respect all other points of view.