13th Age

[Valarian]

I wonder if there's anyone working on Numenera as well?

I've done one (link in the sig) and JPG has done one (currently in Test/Dev stream I think).

[grizbrasfort]

Hi,

I too would be interested in a ruleset for 13th age

Griz

[lokiare]

I'm working a 13th age ruleset, but its for a private game and may not be released to the public. I'm nearly done. I'm sure if people donated money then it would get released to the public. Some screenshots:

[lokiare]

Just an update on this. We contacted the creators of 13th age and they told us to talk to Smiteworks about making a rule set and that they can't really give us permission to release it to the public because of copyright issues with the OGL software clause.

Smiteworks was requested to contact the developers of 13th Age. So its up in the air right now as to if we release it to the public. Also if we did we would probably have a donate link somewhere to support further development. What does everyone think?

[ddavison]

Let me circle up with Moon_Wizard and we can discuss contacting the publisher for 13th Age. I think you'll find that a lot of times, most publishers prefer dealing with another company moreso than dealing with individuals. It's nothing against individual gamers, it's just that a company has a more visible presence. If we sign an agreement with them, they can see our track record and know that we won't go away or break a contract without serious repurcussions and risk of loss to our own interests and reputation.

[damned]

Also if we did we would probably have a donate link somewhere to support further development. What does everyone think?

If SW and the Pub can come to some agreement and you can turn it into a commercial ruleset might be the best option?
I dont play 13th Age but Im all for supporting the people who put in hard work on building these rulesets.
Either way it will probably never make you more than beer money but still - it is nice to get *something* back for your efforts...

[lokiare]

I think due to the fact 13th Age is an Open Game License game, it precludes selling software based on it in any shape or form. However I think we can accept donations through something like paypal 'for our efforts' and still be in good legal territory. How have you handled OGL games in the past?

[ddavison]

I don't think that is accurate. You just need to include the OGL license. C&C is an OGL game system and all of the D&D/PFRPG adventures we sell are OGL. OGL does not mean that the entire system, text and images is OGL -- only that certain parts are. With a license from the original author, you can sell the entirety of the product which includes content covered under the OGL. Without a license, you could give away and freely distribute only the parts of the content which are explicitly marked as OGL, but none of the other material. I'm unsure if donations would violate the distribution of the OGL material -- you'd have to research that separately.

That is my understanding anyway. I am not a lawyer. Please take whatever steps you need to protect yourself and all that jazz.

How have we implemented that sort of thing ourselves?
1. We have chosen to license directly with the publisher whenever possible to avoid any potential conflicts and also to give back to the original authors
2. For un-licensed distribution of OGL, we include OGL material for free in our core product as free add-ons that download for use. These are limited to OGL material that is clearly marked as such and you'll see that the same material is available at other sites publicly such as d20pfsrd.org.

[Trenloe]

I think due to the fact 13th Age is an Open Game License game, it precludes selling software based on it in any shape or form. However I think we can accept donations through something like paypal 'for our efforts' and still be in good legal territory. How have you handled OGL games in the past?

Doug's reply is accurate - the OGL doesn't stop you selling anything that is OGL at all, otherwise Paizo couldn't sell Pathfinder as the majority of the core product uses the d20 OGL from Wizards of the Coast. The OGL allows you to use material published under the OGL in your own products - provided you include a copy of the full OGL in your product and include details of the source of any OGL material in the final section (Section 15) of the OGL you include in your product. See an example of this in any Paizo Pathfinder product - look at the included OGL, usually towards the back of the product.

Familiarise yourself with what material is covered by the OGL and what is considered "product identity" which is not covered by the OGL and is protected by copyright. Most material published under the OGL that contains product identity material will have that mentioned - usually on a title/contents page where the product copyright is mentioned. For example, from a recently published Paizo adventure path book:

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open
Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.
(Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game
Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may
be reproduced in any form without written permission.

So, as long as you stick to material covered by an OGL and include the OGL with all relevant sources listed in section 15, you are OK to do pretty much what you want with the material - sell it, distribute it with a donation, etc.. You can, of course, also combine your own material with the product and other material as long as you adhere to the copyright/creative commons/whatever requirements of that material. The golden rule - if material is not specifically covered by the OGL or a creative commons license then assume that it is covered by copyright unless it is indicated otherwise. "Free", available for download on the Internet, someone else has distributed it/put the info on a website, etc. does not make material copyright free.

[lokiare]

I don't think that is accurate. You just need to include the OGL license. C&C is an OGL game system and all of the D&D/PFRPG adventures we sell are OGL. OGL does not mean that the entire system, text and images is OGL -- only that certain parts are. With a license from the original author, you can sell the entirety of the product which includes content covered under the OGL. Without a license, you could give away and freely distribute only the parts of the content which are explicitly marked as OGL, but none of the other material. I'm unsure if donations would violate the distribution of the OGL material -- you'd have to research that separately.

That is my understanding anyway. I am not a lawyer. Please take whatever steps you need to protect yourself and all that jazz.

How have we implemented that sort of thing ourselves?
1. We have chosen to license directly with the publisher whenever possible to avoid any potential conflicts and also to give back to the original authors
2. For un-licensed distribution of OGL, we include OGL material for free in our core product as free add-ons that download for use. These are limited to OGL material that is clearly marked as such and you'll see that the same material is available at other sites publicly such as d20pfsrd.org.

Doug's reply is accurate - the OGL doesn't stop you selling anything that is OGL at all, otherwise Paizo couldn't sell Pathfinder as the majority of the core product uses the d20 OGL from Wizards of the Coast. The OGL allows you to use material published under the OGL in your own products - provided you include a copy of the full OGL in your product and include details of the source of any OGL material in the final section (Section 15) of the OGL you include in your product. See an example of this in any Paizo Pathfinder product - look at the included OGL, usually towards the back of the product.

Familiarise yourself with what material is covered by the OGL and what is considered "product identity" which is not covered by the OGL and is protected by copyright. Most material published under the OGL that contains product identity material will have that mentioned - usually on a title/contents page where the product copyright is mentioned. For example, from a recently published Paizo adventure path book:

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open
Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress.
(Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this Paizo Publishing game product are Open Game
Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may
be reproduced in any form without written permission.

So, as long as you stick to material covered by an OGL and include the OGL with all relevant sources listed in section 15, you are OK to do pretty much what you want with the material - sell it, distribute it with a donation, etc.. You can, of course, also combine your own material with the product and other material as long as you adhere to the copyright/creative commons/whatever requirements of that material. The golden rule - if material is not specifically covered by the OGL or a creative commons license then assume that it is covered by copyright unless it is indicated otherwise. "Free", available for download on the Internet, someone else has distributed it/put the info on a website, etc. does not make material copyright free.

I see. I must have been thinking about the D20 license. So basically all we have to do is wait for Smiteworks to contact Pelgrane Press and see what happens there, right?